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Technical Index Aerial+LNB 1 Cable Aerial amplifier Aerial Filters Aerial Groups Aerial Points Aerial - Which? Amp Adder Analogue Switch-Off A18QR aerial Arcon Dish Atticbox Audio Adapter USB AV equipment BBC/ITV outside UK Bedroom sound Best aerial Cable Kinked Cable specs Cable-Thin Coax Cable - Which? CAMs etc. Capacitor Kits Channels Chimney Brackets Coaxial Cable Cooling fan Compass use Cupboard Control DAT45 aerial DC inserter Decouple cable Denso Tape Digibox in loft Digisender Digital Ariel Diplexers DirecTV Disconnect safely Disguise a dish Dish indoors Dish Painting Dish Sharing Dish Size E-books Electric shocks Electronic Kits Electronic Parts Epoxy resin glue Extend cable Extender Plate F1 for Free Filter-notch Fire Hazard Fit F Connectors Fit TV plugs Foxsat HDR Free channels Freeview/Freesat Freeview Problem Freesat Install DIY French sat TV German sat TV Greek sat TV Heatshrink Sleeving Hole Cover Humax PSU Inside Sky Digibox Instructions Interference Invacom LNB Italian sat TV IR sensor-locate Large Dishes Lightning Protect Liquid Spilt LNBs - about LNBs - add more LNB amplifier LNB Boots LNB Fitting LNB-Replace Sky LNB Reset LNB skew LNBs-Switching two LNBs 2 in 1 cable LNB-waterproof your Loft Boxes Magic eyes Make Fly-Lead Multiroom phone Multiswitches No Satellite Signal Omnisat Semitronic Orbital dish Phone Socket Wires Phone surge protect Plate-Twin-F Plugs-which? Plug-Top PSUs Plus Combiner Powermid+cable TV Powermid XL Reed Switches Remote Codes Remote Eyes Remote extenders RJ45 plugs Satellites-where Scart leads Self-Amalg Tape SelfSat Antenna Signal Combiners Signal Meter Silicone Grease Sky x2 same room Sky+ batteries Sky Digital Sky in Europe Sky Install DIY Sky LNB Sky LNB-extra Sky Multiroom Sky Remote Probs Sky room wiring Sky Plus Solder - How to Split Digibox RF Split Dish cable Split satellite signal Stacker-Destacker Stuck in standby Thomson Problems Tree blocks signal Triax minidish TV/VCR faults TV Links tvLINKplus TV set New TV eyes USALS Videosenders VisionLink Wall Plates WF125 Plugs What Channels Which plugs Wire my house 304114 wall plate Shop Index All Aerials Aerial Amplifiers Aerial Attenuators Aerial Boosters Aerial Filters Aerial Hardware Aerial Meters Aerial Splitters Audiophile Bargains Books to download Boosters, Amps Cable & Extensions Cable Joint Cable on Reels Capacitors Caravan/motorhome Car Radio Adapters CAT5-HDMI Components Computer Batteries Computer Leads Digibox spares DiSEqC Switches Dishes Dish Hardware DVD Players Earth rod Electrical - mains Electronic components Electronic Kits Electronic Kits 2 Extension - Coax Extension - mains Faceplates Filters electrical F Plugs Fly Leads Freeview cable Freesat Digiboxes FTA Digiboxes Freeview receivers Fuses Gaming Accessories German Sat TV HDMI / Audio Headphone Amp Home Cinema Installation kits Leads + Plugs LED Torches LNB cable LNBs for Sky LNBs 40mm LNBs C120 LNB switches LNB amplifiers Loft Boxes Magic Eyes Mains Electrical Meters Motorhome Motorised dish bits Multiswitches Power supplies Remote Controls Remote extenders Resistors RF Cable RF Modulators Satellite Cable Satellite Meters Scart Leads Screen Cleaning Signal Combiner Sky Digiboxes SkyLink Amplifiers SkyLink Bypass Splitters Telephone cable Thomson PSU Tools Grease Glue Transistors TV Eyes TV Plugs TV Wall Brackets Videosenders Video/Leads Wall plates 1 Wall plates 2 Technical Index FAQs BLOG Contact Us		Dish Sizes for Sky etc. Send this page address - CLICK HERE - to a friend ! .. Dish size? Dish Material Painting a Dish Which receiver? Which LNB Amplifier? Sun position The Sky "minidish" is made by several manufacturers and is roughly 53 cm wide. (The wider a dish is, the less interference it will receive from adjacent satellites.) A larger "zone 2" minidish (about 55 x 75 cm) is used for northern England and Scotland where the signal (from the Astra satellites at 28.2 degrees East of true south) is weaker than in southern England. It also provides a not-too-unsightly upgrade if you are having reception problems with Sky or Freesat in bad weather. Several Astra satellites are clustered in space at the same position (within one kilometre of each other but around 22,000 miles from earth). Each satellite has a number of transmitters or "transponders" which give slightly different "beams", resulting in different "footprints" on Earth. In England, a strong signal is received from all of these transponders but, outside England, the signal becomes progressively weaker as you get further away. In some fringe areas, it's not possible to receive signals from EVERY transponder without using a larger dish. It's possible to receive signals from more than one satellite position. For example, you might want to switch between Astra at 28.2'E to Astra at 19.2'E or "Hot Bird" at 13'E. The simplest way to achieve this is to put a bracket on your dish and add an extra LNB. This can be positioned to receive the reflected signal from a different satellite position. However, the more offset the LNB is from the true focal point (where the main LNB is) the weaker the signal will be. To compensate for this, it's advisable to select a larger dish than would normally be required if only one LNB were fitted. The Sky minidish is too small to use a second LNB and no brackets are available. So it's usual to buy a 60 cm dish or larger - normally 80 cm - with an LNB bracket that allows an extra LNB to be fitted. Lots of customers ask me to specify a suitable dish size... But I really can't answer such questions and, even if you give me full information, I'd still have to look at the published satellite "footprints" - which you can do just as easily as I can! However, here are some suggestions:- In the UK, for a "standard" Sky or Freesat installation with cable run no more than 25m, south of Manchester, a Sky "minidish" will mostly be OK. As you head north of Manchester or West of Bristol, consider using a larger dish (60 cm or more). North of Carlisle and West of Belfast, consider 70 - 80 cm and north of Aberdeen, larger still. Similarly, for Northern France, a standard "minidish" (nominally 53 cm) will do but, as you head south, you can combat problems with "rain fade" better if you increase the size, aiming towards 90 cm at the Spanish border. If your cable run is longer than 25m but less than 50m, or if you are using a "Quattro" LNB with a "multiswitch", use the next larger dish size. Using a larger dish is MUCH more likely to give good results than using an amplifier, but, with an LNB cable run greater than 50m, use both. To look up dish sizes click on this link: Click HERE and HERE for Astra 2D, and for the rest click on this link: http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.shtml This page lists satellites and programmes from the Astra satellites at 28.2'E To find the dish size, look in the column entitled "Beam" and click on the satellite number (e.g. "2A") The page shows recommended dish sizes but bear in mind that they may not be correct for your specific location as there are "hot spots" and "cold spots" in signal strength. For example, you may receive programmes from Astra 2D in Tenerife with a suitable 2.4m dish, LNB and receiver *if you get the combination right*. For Sky Digital you can read my book "Installing Sky Digital TV and Freesat" which holds 120+ pages of hints and tips from professional installers, as well as pages and pages of reports from Sky Digital viewers as far away as Africa. Read what they have to say about dish types, sizes and LNBs then make up your own mind. If you can afford to, always err on the large side and remember that the type of LNB, receiver and cable (and cable length) can all make a big difference to the results. For HOT BIRD at 13'E click here: http://www.lyngsat.com/hotbird.html Click on the links in the column labelled "Beam" to see the individual footprints of the various Hot bird satellites. Sky Digital in Spain (and southern Europe) Salvador Ferrairo Castella spent weeks carrying out tests with various LNBs and dishes. This book is a report of his findings. What size of dish and which LNB works best and why? Complete with photographs including the dishes, LNBs, the ground station where he did the work and the equipment that he used to analyse the signals. Computer plots showing the differences between transponder spectra. This book is full of technical information but Salvador writes in impeccable English with a style that makes the book easy and interesting to read. You can feel his excitement as he reports on his findings! Absolutely invaluable for any expat in southern Europe. Type of material used for Dish What are the relative advantages / disadvantages of the different materials used for satellite dish manufacture -  steel, aluminium, mesh, plastic etc.?   Steel is cheap but rusts unless very well protected. Good microwave mirror properties. Aluminium is expensive but is easier to press to the correct shape and doesn't rust. (However, it will corrode in the presence of salt water unless well protected.) Good microwave mirror properties. Plastic/Mesh dishes (strands of wire embedded in plastic or fibreglass with resin) don't rust but are more expensive to manufacture. Good microwave mirror properties if the mesh is fine enough. The clear type as sold by "Metronic" can be cosmetically good, dependent on the surroundings; however, they do reflect the light, which makes them highly visible from some directions. Mesh dishes (open wire structure) normally suitable for C-band but not Ku-band operation. Perforated dishes (solid sheet with holes punched) are easy to press and cosmetically better than solid.  Good microwave mirror properties but very slightly worse than a solid dish. Painting a Dish I'm frequently asked about painting dishes. YES you can paint the entire dish any colour you wish, including the LNB and cable. Don't paint the LNB cap which faces the dish. After you have checked your dish for damage and missing parts, we STRONGLY advise you to paint it. Done properly, a couple of coats of paint will help protect it from corrosion and suitable choice of colour(s) will help it blend into its background. Although white is a nice colour if your building is white, it reflects the sunlight too efficiently. In countries where sunshine is strong and continuous you should paint the dish a dark colour with matt (not gloss) paint. If the dish concentrates sunlight on the LNB cap, it will melt! Camouflaged dishes and unusual satellite antennas are discussed in this book.... Which Receiver? For weak signal areas, an (obsolete) Pace BSKYB2600, DS430N, or "Javelin" minibox work best. The obsolete Panasonic TU-DSB30 was good but later had software problems, while the TU-DSB20 or the Grundig GDSxxx (various models) are also quite good as the tuner selectivity is good. This phrase "tuner selectivity" means that the tuner can winkle out a weak signal even when very strong signals are present (as in the case of the weak Astra 2D signal and the strong southern beam in southern Europe). Note that good selectivity does not necessarily mean "sensitivity". Indeed a "sensitive" tuner might suffer overload from the strong signal produced by a large dish. It's possible that some non-Sky Digital Receivers will perform even better than the Sky Digiboxes mentioned above. This is an important point for the BBC channels and others which are Free to Air. In that case you may wish to add a FTA receiver to your system and use that for BBC and ITV etc. To do that, you'll either need to choose a receiver with LNB loop-through (uses the same LNB) or else change your LNB to a twin-output version that will let you use two receivers simultaneously. Will an amplifier improve my signal/picture? CLICK HERE to find out Dear Martin I read with interest the piece in your newsletter on Astra 2D channels dropping out at random on the Panasonic Digibox and the Panafix2d filter solution. I've had this problem for ages on 2D, but with a Pace 2500. My complete system is : Cambridge G57 'platinum' LNB, 1 metre solid offset dish, Cryptik DiSEqC motor, about 40 metres of CT100 connected to an Echostar DSB-808 then the LNB loop through to the Digibox. It's certainly no lack of signal - I live in the London area! The Echostar TP signal strength meter indicates between 85 and 90% for Astra 2A/B and Eurobird, dropping to between 80 and 85% for 2D. Dish alignment can't be bad as I can get all expected satellites for a 1m from 45E to 30W (whereafter trees come into play). It's also not TP specific. I can have problems getting one or more channels whilst others on the same TP are fine. The only solution at present is as you say by channel switching until the one you want comes up. I would be interested to know if you think this filter would help on the Pace. Regards Steve Potter I think it unlikely. The losses in your cable coupled with the connections to the DiSEqC motor may be causing the problem. Try connecting directly to the LNB with the shortest possible length of coax. 40m is really on the top limit. Best Wishes, Martin Hi Martin Thought I'd drop you a note to say thanks for the tip. Unfortunately due to geographic location (rear of house faces due south) and the wife (AV equipment in the front room, please) shortening the cable was not a real option. I managed to loose about 4 metres with a bit of re-routing! So, I had the ever efficient Nicola dispatch me a Global TVRO16F. This made only a marginal difference to the 2D channel switching problem, but made a big improvement to signal stability, especially on marginal channels such the Italian ones on the Eurobird S2 beam. Of course now we have plenty of BBC FTA channels to observe, channel switching with the Echostar is not a problem - it never fails to lock on to 2D channels unlike the Digibox. As a matter of interest I recently upgraded the Echostar software to EchoNav v3.01 from v2.2 and experienced a problem that neither the dealer nor Eurosat were able to explain, but came up with a workaround. After about 2 days, having selected DiSEqC 1.2 motorised from a factory reset, it would revert to the default Fixed Dish setting, making further sat positioning impossible without another reset. The workaround is to select 2 LNBs with DiSEqC 1.2 (just in case you come across anyone else with the problem). Kind regards -- Steve Potter August 27, 2003 Thanks for the info. The TVRO16F is supposed to be fitted after about 40m of cable so I'm interested to know where you positioned it as, in general, attaching it behind the receiver is not recommended! I'm receiving more reports of 2D problems with Pace Digiboxes but, as I don't have one here to investigate, I'm no closer to a solution. I have a suspicion it may be yet another symptom of the ZIF tuner problem. Best Wishes, Martin Aug 29th 03 Dear Martin Before I fitted the TVRO16F I called Global and asked if it should be at the receiver or LNB end - they said it didn't matter! So of course I took the easy option and it is behind the receiver. For sure it has stopped at lot of the picture break-up problems on weaker signals. I did a straight comparison, with and without, checking the Echostar signal quality meter and without the TVRO16F the level would be about say 60%, then drop for a second or so to 30%, then go back to 60%. With the TVRO16F it remains stable. However I did wonder if the TVRO16F was the factor with the Echonav 3 problem, even though it had not been a problem with 2.2. Are you thinking I should fit it at the LNB end - if so, between the motor and LNB or after the motor? Steve No, as I recall from about 13 years ago, they told me it should "after approx. 40 - 45m of cable for best results". I was just curious. It's a trade off between amplifying noise and amplifying signal. If it's close to the dish then it will be amplifying more signal than noise but, since the signal is already strong, it may be overloaded. Further from the LNB, the cable has picked up noise and the signal is weaker so both get amplified. You might like to try it at or near the LNB. Martin Pickering Dear Martin Having fitted the Global TVRO16F between the LNB and motor as you suggested I am no longer experiencing the Astra 2D channel switching problems on the Pace 2500. I left it a while to try it in different weather conditions and times of day. Finally we have some heavy rain and it's still switching channels no problem. Kind regards Steve Potter   Sunburn For a few days during the months of March and October, around 10am, the sun goes directly behind Astra 28.2'E. (Useful for alignment purposes.) This can have two effects: Your satellite picture and sound will disappear for a few minutes If you live in a hot, sunny place, your LNB cap might melt! Send this page address - CLICK HERE - to a friend ! Here's a useful site that gives you dish sizes: http://www.satmania.com/eng/satchannels